Posted by Hans on January 27, 2001 at 11:22:35:
In Reply to: Thanks Hans, there are exceptions posted by R.J. on January 27, 2001 at 10:49:37:
discussion is not anymore about original post and belongs on a language board really.
But I must say that the origin of word holds a fascination for me, as a boy in primary education I always wanted to know the right pronounciation of foreign words and felt it always as a pity when I had to say "Parijs" instead of "Paris" the French way. [Little did I know that there were other "French ways" also, but that belongs definitely on another board, isn't it]
So again: DC.
: Smart boy that Hans! Yes there are exceptions depending on the origin of the name the rules even change ifone is referring to an area rather than an absolute country. I think we have spent enough time on this question. Everyone handle it anyway they wish. You must admit though that discussing it does provoke thought.
: Robert J. Tomkins
: R.J.'s Tours Ltd
: : Dear Natasha
: : "The Hague" is written in Dutch as "Den Haag" translated into English that would be "The Hedge" The correct name of The Hague is " 's Gravenhage". The apostroph "'" is an abbrevation of "des" and when the name is written at full lenght that would be "des Graven Hage".
: : 1. The word "des" is expressing "possesion of something". It is an an old fashioned way of writing "van de" that is "of the".
: : 2. "Graven" is the plural of "Graaf' which means "Count" in English.
: : 3. "Hage" is another way of writing "Haag".
: : So the total meaning of the name of the city is "The Hedge of the Counts" In his case hedge meaning not only a piece of shrubbery around a garden, but denoting a border around a piece of land owned by a count(ess) or a line of countesses).
: : In Dutch Crimea is written as "De Krim" in English that would be "The Crimea" indeed. As the name is taken from a foreign country I could not say anything about the history of this word in Dutch, but would certainly like to know where it came from.
: : Simfero...prdn Sincerely,
: : Hans
: : : What about the Hague? The Crimea?
: : :
: : : : You are allowed your opinion but that doesn't necessarily make it a correct one.
: : : : The only way it would sound correct is if the name denoted plural. Example Canada is singular therefore no "The". Ukraine is singular, therefore no "the"... British Isles denotes plural therefore "the" in front is grammatically correct.
: : : : Say it correctly or don't say it at all and whether or not you have any faith in me is of little concern to me.
: : : : Robert J. Tomkins
: : : : R.J.'s Tours Ltd
: : : : www.tourukraine.com
: : :
: : : : : Hmmm... just a thought. If "ALMOST EVERY" customer you get do say THE Ukraine, maybe you should consider that they could be right...
: : : : : FYI: although more and more people do seem to drop the definite article, grammatically it is still correct to keep it there. Sorry RJ, but in this issue I have more confidence in both Webster's Dictionary and Oxford Advanced than in you. :-)
: : : : :
: : : : : : I am sure it was just a slip on their part but I am glad there was a mini forum here on the question. Almost every customer I get refers to it as "The Ukraine" and that is hard on the ears.
: : : : : : Robert J. Tomkins
: : : : : : R.J.'s Tours Ltd
: : : : : : www.tourukraine.com
: : : : : :
: : : : : : : : Anyone who refers to travelling to Ukraine as to "THE" Ukraine....well I think it speaks for iteslf. Let's see if this sounds right, travelling to The Canada.
: : : : : : : : Robert J. Tomkins
: : : : : : : : R.J.'s Tours Ltd
: : : : : : : : www.tourukraine.com
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : : I did not so any Ukrainian link or anything for travelers who want to travel to Ukraine.Please clear the situation.
: : : : : : : : : : For all your travel requirements to Russia and the Ukraine just have a look at http://www.russiangateway.co.uk for the website of the CIS experts - we have clients from all over the world - experience our passion for customer service.
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